I am going to uptown school. I paid my deposit and I withdrew from downtown school. Uptown school ended up not giving me any financial aid either, but I had already resigned myself to the large loans I will have to take out. As you might have noticed, I added a little countdown widget to the column on the right of the page and was surprised to see how close law school really is. Yikes! And I still have to find daycare!
Last week I received notice from downtown school that, not only did they not think I was cool enough to be a finalist for the scholarship I applied for, they also do not think I am needy enough to qualify for any aid whatsoever. So, since money was the only thing that was going to change my mind at this point, that pretty much seals the deal for me -- I will be going to uptown school. I attended an admitted student event there a week and a half ago, and I definitely think I will be happiest there. I haven't received anything from them about financial aid yet, but I don't really expect them to give me anything either (although I am hoping for a little something anyway).
So, obviously, I will be taking out loans. My husband's current salary is sufficient to pay our living expenses, and for the first 9 months of school I will be getting GI Bill money (I've already used a lot of it and only have 9 months of benefits left), which will help pay for daycare, but I am probably going to have to take out loans to cover the entire cost of tuition and fees, etc. We have some money from the sale of our house, but we would rather save that for a down payment on another house after I graduate than spend it all on tuition. In any case, if we change our minds we can just use the money to pay down the loans after I graduate. So, I guess I am looking at $120,000 or so in loans. Luckily my school has a pretty good LRAP, so if I enter public interest law, as I plan to, making the loan payments shouldn't be a problem. So, I am not particularly worried about having to take out these large loans. Even if for some reason I don't qualify for the LRAP, student loans tend to be pretty flexible in how you pay them off.
I haven't really started thinking of myself as decided on uptown school yet, even though I can't think of anything that will change my mind. I guess it is because I feel like things are still pending, or maybe because I am not ready to start doing all the things that I will need to do once the decision is made, the most difficult of which will be finding daycare.
It has been a while since I posted anything about law school -- my life in the couple weeks has been consumed almost completely by the move. But there are a couple law-school-related items to report on.
Friday was the day by which finalists for the scholarships I applied for at downtown school were to be notified. I have not been notified, therefore I am probably not a finalist. Hubby called them Friday afternoon to ask whether all the finalists had been notified. They said they would be notifying some alternates early next week, but other than that, yes. So maybe I will be an alternate, or maybe I will be nothing. If the latter, then I will almost certainly go to uptown school. I mentioned before that I was leaning that way, but thought my opinion might change after the admitted student event at downtown school. Well I went to that two weeks ago (right before the move, so I never got a chance to blog about it), and while I feel like I got a better sense of what the school is like from that event, and I definitely feel more positively about it than I did after my first visit, and I certainly would not be unhappy there, I still think uptown school suits me better.
As an example of a difference between the two schools, when I was visiting downtown school for the first time, a current student who was there to talk to us was asked about the professor's teaching styles and the Socratic method and she said something to the effect that the professors weren't too hard on 1Ls. When I was visiting uptown school the student giving our tour made a comment that the professors don't use the Socratic method too much after the first year. Now, if the statements by both of these students are true, this would seem to represent a pretty big difference in teaching styles at the two schools. Personally, I think that it makes more sense to use the Socratic method more in the first year in order to really get students to "think like a lawyer." After the first year, hopefully, the thought process will be pretty well ingrained and the professors won't have to ask the questions because the students will already be asking them themselves.
So, anyway, while I am leaning towards, to the point of almost falling over onto, uptown school, I am still holding out a tiny piece of hope for the scholarships at downtown school, and failing that I will still need to see what my financial aid packages are like. Speaking of which, I don't think I mentioned that my third choice school, which had offered me a $15,000/yr merit award, sent me a letter telling me that I do not qualify for any need-based aid. I hope that is just because they already offered me money and is not an indication of what I should expect from my top two schools.
Last week I had the opportunity to visit my top two schools. I'm not going to call them number one and number two (or first choice and second choice) anymore, because I am not so sure number one is really number one for me. So the school which was formerly known as number one I will now call downtown, and the school formerly known as number two I will now call uptown. I had a rather informal visit at downtown -- it wasn't an admitted students' day, I just sat in on a class and took a tour. The class was not that engaging, and the students didn't seem terribly interested, or prepared. Perhaps it was the subject matter (property), or the fact that it was a Friday, I don't know. But I wasn't terribly impressed. The school itself is very nice, though. I like the way the library is laid out and there are lots of quiet areas to study. I didn't really get a chance to talk to any students and I left the school feeling pretty neutral towards it.
The visit at uptown was a larger event (but not an admitted students' day either). I sat in on a class, attended a brunch with students and administrators and took a tour. The class was much more engaging, there was a lot of back and forth with the students, several of whom raised their hands to contribute or ask questions. Again, it could have been the subject matter (criminal law) that made the class more interesting, but even if it wasn't, is it really fair to compare schools based on one class led by one professor? They might not be representative of all the classes or all the professors.
At the brunch I had the good fortune of sitting at a table with the Director of Financial Aid (who helped me figure out how to answer the unanswerable questions in the financial aid application) and a student mother who told me about how supportive everyone was when she got pregnant her 1L year. I left that event feeling really good about uptown, to the point that I think I am actually leaning towards choosing uptown if the money is about equal. However, I don't feel like I really got a sense of what downtown is like from my visit there and I may be selling it short. So, I will be going back this Friday for the Admitted Student Day. Hopefully I will get a chance to sit in on another class and talk to some students. I am hoping that I end up liking it just as well as uptown after another visit, because the deciding factor is probably going to be money, and if I get the scholarship I applied for from downtown I don't want to feel disappointed that I won't be going to uptown, because there is no way I could turn that down.
I just got accepted at my second choice school! Woohoo! The envelope came today. Thanks to the folks on the Pre-Law Board at Law School Discussion, I knew exactly what it was when I saw the size and color of the envelope, as the folks who received an acceptance before me were kind enough to describe it in detail. I didn't bother to torture myself this time, I just ripped it right open.
Although it is my second choice school, it is a very close second. In addition, it is the same university that I attended as an undergraduate, which is long enough ago now that I have nothing but fond memories of it. The main reason number one is number one is the public interest focus, but number two isn't too shoddy in that department either and also has several classes in education law, a subject that interests me and which aren't available at number one.
So, basically, if one offers me significantly more money than the other, then that is where I will go. If they offer me about the same money, then I will have a really tough choice. I already withdrew from my fourth choice school and may withdraw from number three now as well, because I don't think the $15,000/yr scholarship they offered me is enough to draw me away from my top two.
Yesterday I received a large envelope from my first chioce school in the mail. Since rejections don't usually come in large envelopes, I was excited to open it, but, instead, I tortured myself by opening, and processing, every other piece of mail I received first. Let's see, some books from Amazon, I better add those to my library; a credit card offer, that goes to the shredder; the DMV needs verification of my insurance, better log on to GEICO and take care of that. Then, once I finished going through the mail, my son woke up from his nap, so I had to go take care of him. Once he was happy it was finally time to open the envelope. I got in! The letter was dated exactly one month after I submitted my application, and only about a week since I called them and they verified that my application had been received, but not yet processed. They never did send me a notification that I was complete, but who cares!
I also heard from my fourth choice school a couple days ago. At this point I don't think I would go there even if they did offer me a full tuition scholarship with a stipend. I have heard that they use some of the questionable scholarship practices that Frugal Law Student Mentioned (i.e. placing scholarship students in one section to weed each other out), and that their career services office is really bad.
I got a letter in the mail from my third choice law school yesterday offering me a $15,000 a year merit award. It is automatically renewable for three years, so I don't have to worry about losing it if I'm not able to maintain a certain GPA. Which is nice, but it is also not a free ride, by any means, considering tuition at the school is approximately $37,000. Still, it's nice to know that they like me enough to offer me one of their few merit awards, and it would certainly decrease the amount of loans I would have to take out.
In other money news, I am currently waiting for W-2s to arrive so I can do my taxes, so that I can fill out financial aid forms. Why must everyone wait to the last minute to send out tax forms? Also, my parents have informed me that they will probably not have their taxes done before April, so I am going to have to figure out whether the schools I have applied to will accept their 2005 taxes or estimates of 2006 or what. Also my parents have a relatively large chunk of money sitting in the bank from an inheritance they received from my grandfather, so I hope that is not going to screw me on financial aid.
I am kind of embarassed to have to ask my parents for their financial information because I don't feel like that is any of my business -- my going to law school has nothing to do with them and I certainly wouldn't expect them to contribute anything towards it. So, while I kind of understand the rationale behind asking for everybody's parent's information no matter what, it is still annoying. scholarships financial+aid
This week I attended an admitted students event at my third choice school (the only school to which I have been admitted so far). Although the event itself was relatively short (three hours), it was a long day for me. I drove my son to my sister-in-law's house 1.5 hours away so my mother-in-law could watch him, then took the train (1 hr) into the city. Because it was the middle of the day the trains were running very infrequently and I had to take a train that got me there an hour early in order to get there in time. With my extra time I got lunch at a sushi place (I have been craving sushi since I was pregnant).
The event itself was not terribly enlightening. There were several speakers who talked very briefly about financial aid, their public interest programs and career services. And several speakers claimed that their school was friendly and not at all like "The Paper Chase
After the speakers we went on a brief tour of the school. It seemed pretty small, but I haven't yet seen any other law schools to compare it to. After the tour was a light buffet and a chance to talk with a few faculty, staff and students. I grabbed a few bites and left so I could get back home at a reasonable time (given the 1 hour train raid and 1.5 hour drive). So anyway, after the event number three school is still in third place for me. Money could change things though, we'll see.
(In case anyone is wondering, I am not so much trying to keep the schools I am applying to secret -- I have given them away multiple times through links -- I just don't necessarily want anybody searching for those schools to find my blog just yet.)
Since I am interested in working in public interest law, one of my criteria for choosing among schools will be their loan repayment assistance programs (LRAP). Loan Repayment Assistance Programs, as their name implies, help you pay off the loans you incur while in law school. With a good LRAP your loans may be entirely paid off without you having to pay a single cent. However, not all LRAPs are created equal. Here are some of the factors that you need to look at in LRAPs:
Amount of Benefit: Most schools I have looked at will give you up to the amount of your loan payments on a 10-year repayment plan, so it is typically to your benefit to put your loan a 10-year repayment schedule to get the maximum benefit. However, some schools have a cap on the amount of benefit you can receive, so be sure to check before you make any changes.
Length of Benefit: How long after you graduate you can receive the benefit, and/or for how many years you can receive the benefit. Ten is the most I have seen, since most programs assume a ten-year repayment schedule. Some programs allow you to take a deferment or leave of absence without affecting your eligibility.
Eligible Employment: Typically, to be eligible for a LRAP you must be working in a law-related job in public service. However, definitions of public service vary, so make sure you know what kinds of jobs qualify, and, when you are looking for a job, you may want to double-check with your school to make sure they will accept a job you are considering before you accept the offer. Clerking typically does not count as eligible employment, but most programs will cover you for a one-year clerkship as long as you go into an eligible job right after.
Income: Most LRAPs have a base income, under which you receive the full benefit, and an income cap, above which you will not receive any benefit. Some schools adjust the base and cap based on the actual salaries of their graduates in each graduating class, while others have a single income cap that applies to all graduates. In some cases the income base can be unrealistically low (like $25,000), limiting the usefulness of the benefit. Significant assets may also limit your benefit or disqualify you from receiving any benefit.
Loan Forgiveness: Typically the money you receive from a LRAP is in the form of a loan which can be forgiven if you continue to work in public service. You may need to work as long as five or seven years in public service before your loans will be forgiven, so, if you work in public service and receive loan repayment assistance for three years and then take a job outside of public service, you may need to repay the money you received.
In addition to school LRAPs, some states also offer LRAPs. For more information on LRAPs see the ABA LRAP page.loan+repayment+assistance+program LRAP student+loans tuition financial+aid public+service public+interest+law paying+for+law+school
Frugal Law Student has a post that relates to the question I asked in my first post: is it better to go to a lower ranked school with a large scholarship or a higher ranked school without a scholarship? I knew that if I went to a lower ranked school that I would need a higher GPA to have good job prospects, but FLS points out that many of the lower ranked schools have a mean first year curve, and that if the scholarship is dependant on maintaining a certain GPA you may lose it after the first year, leaving you with poor job prospects and large debt. This just strengthens my initial inclination to go to a higher-ranked school even if I do have to pay most of the tuition myself (of course I am still hoping for a scholarship at my number one or two school!).scholarship financial+aid tuition law+school+rankings
I received my first acceptance into law school today. It came by email from what is currently my third choice school. I expected my first acceptance to make me excited about the fact that I am really going to law school next year, but somehow the email did not do that for me. Maybe the excitement will come with the official letter and other hard-copy materials from the school -- there's still something about dead trees that can't quite be replicated digitally.
